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When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again Wikipedia

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When nosotros were kids, we used to express mirth at the line "And we'll all feel gay" right before "When Johnny comes marching home". It appears that someone has vandalized the page, and removed that line. I'm adding it dorsum. And "Gay" in this sense means "Glad".

The Disharmonism's song "English Civil War" used the melody of "When Johnny Comes Marching Home", and incorporated the first line:

"When Johnny comes marching home again, hurrah, ta dah, He'south coming past bus or underground, hurrah, ta dah"

Original canvass music (1863) gives credit for words and music to Louis Lambert. -AlvinMGO 23:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC) [respond]

This was plainly a pseudonym JQ 07:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC) [reply]

I grew upward in Clarksburg, WV, but s of the Mason-Dixon line. Most of the elders in our surface area could tell you stories well-nigh their families having brothers who fought on either side of this state of war. My grandad, (born in 1897), told me how his father described bathing in a river at night and calling out to the other side, "I take a brother in (such and such battalion), can you please tell me anything you know?" I was taught by my church choir manager that this song also was used equally a war protest vocal during the Ceremonious War. The words I can remember are: "He has no arms, He has no legs, hurray, hurrah." Then there was a comment about "how tin can he dance with me...hurray, hurrah." If anyone knows annihilation most this version, I would love to hear virtually its history. (Valerie H. Brand-Ranagan--7/18/2013.

— Preceding unsigned comment added past 71.185.116.149 (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC) [reply]

I grew up in Clarksburg, WV, merely south of the Mason-Dixon line. Most of the elders in our area could tell you stories about their families having brothers who fought on either side of this state of war. My grandfather, (born in 1897), told me how his male parent described bathing in a river at night and calling out to the other side, "I have a brother in (such and such battalion), can yous please tell me anything you lot know?" I was taught past my church choir manager that this song also was used as a war protestation song during the Civil War. The words I can remember are: "He has no arms, He has no legs, hurray, hurrah." And then there was a comment nigh "how can he dance with me...hurray, hurrah." If anyone knows anything nigh this version, I would beloved to hear about its history. (Valerie H. Brand-Ranagan--7/xviii/2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.116.149 (talk) 03:29, xix July 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Technically, Talk pages are not intended as vehicles for full general queries like this but rather equally a forum where improvements and edits to the article can be discussed. Nevertheless - your query tin be answered briefly. Your great-grandfather was remembering the Irish version of the vocal, which has a Wikipedia article on it, Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye. There is an active word at that place and in the real world nigh which song gave rise to the other - which is the older of the ii. The jury is still out on that. regards, Sensei48 (talk) 04:01, 19 July 2013 (UTC) [respond]

Is Buttermilk Loma/Johnny's Gone for a Soldier related to WJCMH? There are some places that say WJCMH is a "sequel" of sorts to Johnny's Gone. Percy Hall's website has them grouped into a single presentation, called "Johnny's a Soldier". --2ltben xiii:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC) [reply]

the entry's author didn't remember to mention Morton Gould'south "American Salute"... 83.29.63.141 (talk) 16:57, eleven December 2007 (UTC) joanda [respond]

Even so, skillful James Fuld, author of the standard text on popular music, The Book of World Famous Music, states on page 640 of that volume that Donal O'Sullivan, the Irish authority, has written the Library of Congress that he does not consider the melody of "When Johnny Comes Marching Dwelling house" as Irish in origin. Every bit stated, no printed music of Irish origin has been discovered that predates American publication in September of 1863 by Henry Tolman in Boston under the title "When Johnny Comes Marching Abode". Library of Congress records do prove a title "Johnny Fill up The Bowl" that was published in July of 1863 by John J. Daly that appears to comprise the vocal'south melody.

Since when was "Irish Authority" a respected or bona fide title -- this has all the credibility of some bloke downwardly the pub that reads lots of books on Irish gaelic music. If this person is a genuine academic then publish a source. You might then too rewrite the whole article considering it's a mess.

100% pure Wikiality. 

          —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.129.162 (talk) xix:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)                      [respond]

Additionally, if you look at the Wiki folio for "Johnny we Hardly Knew Ye", it claims that it is the tune ground for WJCMH with a quote attributed to Gilmore himself. This needs to be more consistent. 125.238.14.18 (talk) 23:49, xi November 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Agreed, totally irrespective of the reality of the situation, this department simply reads similar some butt-injure American is trying his best to downplay the fact that the tune of ane of America'southward most famous historical songs isn't even American in origin. —Preceding unsigned annotate added by 82.eight.131.151 (talk) 12:42, xiii January 2011 (UTC) [reply]

The link for "The Ants Go Marching 1 By One" says, "By Robert D. Singleton 'The Ants Go Marching' is a children's vocal that first appeared in Barney's Campfire Sing Forth (1990)." But I had it on a record in the 1970s when I was little, and the lyrics were slightly different. Instead of, "And they all start marching down to the footing / To go out of the rain, Nail BOOM BOOM.", it was, "And they all first marching / To the end / Of the Globe / To go out / Of the rain." I don't call up what the record was and I don't have it anymore. Does anyone else think this? Sluggoster (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2012 (UTC) [reply]

I accept to second this motion. I know "The Ants Go Marching One By One" predates Barney'southward version. We used to sing this vocal as kids at camp, back in the early to mid 80s. What I was hoping to find (and am still hoping for) is a Wiki entry for "The Ants Go Marching One By One" -- I would dearest to know the origins/history of that song. Jdevola (talk) 20:03, v October 2015 (UTC) [reply]

I sang this song at different camps growing up in the early 1960'south. — Preceding unsigned annotate added past 2600:100C:B2BB:514E:B11F:41F5:4C7:F8EC (talk) 01:59, 30 October 2019 (UTC) [respond]

Some performances I've seen of "On Springfield Mountain" are sung to a melody that'due south fairly similar. For case: http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/folkden-wp/?p=6974 https://www.youtube.com/sentinel?v=vELGVnPt_Pc

On the other hand, other performances utilise some very dissimilar melodies. Anyone know what the bargain is there?

Esn (talk) 03:03, 26 Feb 2016 (UTC) [reply]

A contempo monograph on Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye shows that When Johnny Comes Marching Domicile clearly was the earlier song. I've added the reference, and I'll try to say something in the article at some point. Since the present commodity assumes the primacy of Johnny I Inappreciably Knew Ye, information technology will be necessary to rewrite pretty much the entire Origins section. John M Baker (talk) 04:43, 28 November 2012 (UTC) [respond]

Also, the tune of When Johnny Comes Marching Dwelling house was taken from Johnny Fill up the Bowl, of which For Bales, discussed in the article, was a after variant. Lighter suggests that the melody derives ultimately from The Three Ravens. John M Baker (talk) 04:57, 28 Nov 2012 (UTC) [reply]

Let's slow down a minute. What is this monograph? Who is the author and what are his/her credentials? Is it a RS? Has it been vetted in the academy? A single source purporting to provide a definitive reply to an historically obscure origin needs to be approached with circumspection. There are plenty of monographs on plenty of subjects that are so speculative and inferential every bit to be useless every bit bodily show. Lighter'southward areas of expertise announced to be slang and etymology - not folklore. This needs a closer look.Sensei48 (talk) 07:32, 28 Nov 2012 (UTC) [reply]
Well, it looks pretty RS to me. The author is Jonathan Lighter, a professor of English and the editor of the Historical Dictionary of American Slang. He's an practiced on the apply of sources in tracing historical origins, which is the role of folklore we care virtually for present purposes. Lighter traces the historical origins of both Johnny I Inappreciably Knew Ye and When Johnny Comes Marching Home in considerable detail, with an examination of original sources that doesn't seem to have occurred before. John M Baker (talk) 12:23, 28 November 2012 (UTC) [reply]
Thanks for the prompt and measured response. I don't have the monograph, though I see that information technology's available through B&Due north. I'd similar to take a look at it myself just for involvement'southward sake - and to meet what the critical response to it has been. I'd also like to re-examine sources asserting the opposite and look for some others.
My caution stems from a number of cases here on Wikipedia in other articles, 2 of which might be worth brief mention. A few years back, one Les Standiford published a book called The Man Who Invented Christmas about A Christmas Carol. Standiford asserts that the holiday was "dying" and/or little-historic until the Dickens novella revived it. An editor rewrote the Ballad article nearly in its entirety based on Standiford's book, which is speculative and problematic in many ways (and this is an area in which I have some professional expertise and several decades of work). Standiford is an academic - a professor of creative writing, not philology or literary research - and the volume itself was non offered every bit a scholarly treatise merely rather equally a pop essay. The result for the commodity on Wikipedia has been that information technology has been necessary continually to keep the article balanced and representative of different perspectives on the bug.
Ditto Battle of the Piddling Bighorn following the publication of Gregory Michno'southward Lakota Noon, a reconstruction of the battle using previously-ignored Native American accounts. An editor rewrote the commodity using the often-conflicting native accounts as the base narrative - and there had already been a century of academic scholarship on the boxing that avant-garde a very large number of other and ofttimes contradictory theories. Again, the integrity of the article was negatively impacted by reliance on one source as master.
Might I propose that rather than rewrite the whole Origins section - for the moment at least - that the Lighter material be introduced as a new or gimmicky or recent theory? Let'due south see what the bookish and/or critical response to Lighter's monograph might be and perhaps offer more detailed evidence supporting conflicting theories. regards, Sensei48 (talk) 16:04, 28 November 2012 (UTC) [reply]
A quick look at contempo works includes an assertion by Alan Bewell that "Johnny I Inappreciably Knew ye" dates from the 1760s. Bewell is chair of the English department at the U. of Toronto and his point appears in a book published by The Johns Hopkins University Press. Those are heavy-duty bookish credentials - which I offer hither only in support of a balanced approach to introducing the Lighter material into the article. regards, Sensei48 (talk) sixteen:32, 28 Nov 2012 (UTC) [reply]
I understand your position. I've experienced something of the kind myself with jazz (word). A writer named Daniel Cassidy wrote a volume, How the Irish Invented Slang, in which he posited that "jazz" derives from the Irish (Celtic) give-and-take "teas," or estrus (which, co-ordinate to Cassidy, is pronounced "jazz" in some dialects). At present, How the Irish Invented Slang is pretty much the antonym of RS. Cassidy knew nothing of linguistic research, used discredited methods, sought to achieve a previously determined conclusion, and considered it a virtue that both his methods and his conclusions were contrary to established linguistics. Also, he did non speak Irish gaelic. Yet, one of his followers (strongly suspected to exist Cassidy himself) pushed his theory very hard.
This is a very different instance. Lighter is a prominent legitimate academic with all-encompassing experience in tracing literary origins. The monograph itself is well-researched and thoroughly documented, with extensive quotations from source materials. I establish information technology quite convincing. (Incidentally, I would recommend it to you; I looked at your user page, and it seems likely that y'all would like it very much. I read information technology through twice myself.)
And, as far as I can tell, this isn't so much a rival theory as the only theory with 18-carat research. For example, I looked at the work by Bewell (this, I assume). There is no back up indicated at that place for "Johnny I Inappreciably Knew Ye" being an anonymous Irish street ballad of the 1760s. Is in that location in his source, Tillotson, Eighteenth Century English Literature? The relevant folio of Tillotson is unavailable online, but it's hard to see how a war with Ceylon in the early 1800s could have given ascension to an Irish street ballad in the 1760s. Generally the claims of an early Irish origin seem to be based on loosely read internal show, with no bodily resort to the sources.
I would be happy to stand up corrected, and maybe in that location's more real research on When Johnny Comes Marching Home, which after all is a better-known song. Merely I'm not seeing information technology in the sources cited in the article at present. John Thousand Bakery (talk) 00:11, 29 November 2012 (UTC) [respond]
Right. There are tantalizing allusions to Tillotson, the Hazen anthology, and a supposed 19th century source with a remark from Gilmore himself ascribing the melody to "Hardly Knew Ye," but these are all elusive. The Tillotson book is I believe long out of print and bachelor only in libraries, merely I'll poke around and run across if I tin can notice annihilation of value. I'd exist happy to run across yous do the proposed rewrite (as I note yous've done already and carefully with the Wiki "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye"), and if I detect annihilation more substantial than the oblique comment from Bewell I'll allow you know and maybe sandbox any revision that seems warranted.
Your experience with "jazz" is both cautionary and amusing - and all too typical of what gets used as sourcing hither on Wikipedia, as if the mere fact that a theory is published automatically renders information technology reliable. That's one of the bug with working the Standiford material into the Christmas Ballad article without letting it dominate - he raises some useful points and his volume in its entirety allows for points of view different from his own, but his basic thesis is not widely accustomed in the academy.
The issue here with "Johnny" reminds me of issues I've had with the article on another Irish tune, "The Whistling Gypsy Rover." The vocal was indeed copyrighted in 1950 by Irish entertainer Leo Maguuire, and die-hard purist folk music types have derided it as a sentimental rewrite of the more than august Child carol #200,"The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy" with all the variant titles - and that's the story that characterizes the Wiki article. Trouble is, when the melody became pop in the U.S. right subsequently 1960, my Irish-born grandmother (1893) who had lived since she was 7 in the U.S. knew most of the words and the chorus and said that she sang it equally a little girl. Courtesy of the cyberspace, online folklore collections, a academy library, and some monographs, I've located perhaps 20 variants of the song published decades before Maguire and going dorsum as far as 1888 - variants that resemble this vocal in melody (closely), chorus (which "Wraggle-Taggle"-"Gypsy Laddie" etc. do not have), and plot. I can't insert this into the article withal, though, because information technology constitutes synthesis and original research, which we all agree is a no-no here on Wikipedia. I'll have to await for a monograph like Lighter's - or maybe write 1 myself. regards, Sensei48 (talk) 04:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC) [respond]
I've rewritten the article to incorporate Lighter's scholarship. I considered replacing the For Bales lyrics with the original lyrics to Johnny Fill Up the Bowl, but ended up trying to minimize changes to that section. The Origins section, of grade, got a complete rewrite. With these additional references, I felt comfortable removing the Refimprove flag.
It sounds similar you need to make your own contribution to scholarship with The Whistling Gypsy Rover. If you ever do, permit me know on my talk page - I'd exist interested. John Thou Baker (talk) 17:55, one December 2012 (UTC) [reply]

Does the stone vino in the song reference Würzburger Stein wines (Steinwein)? Or simply the stoneware? Just a question. J. D. Redding 13:01, 12 November 2016 (UTC) [answer]

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Here in the UK, there are 2 VERY well-known children's variants on this melody, often sung in a major fundamental but unmistakably owing to this source melody. On Wikipedia, The Runaway Train has but a passing mention on a disambiguation page, and I didn't find The Animals Went In Ii By Ii. I call up information technology's apt to cite both of these on this very page, and I think the British pop consciousness would then immediately agree (expect online for children's song pages/recordings to verify this). However, I'thousand non confidently Wikipedian, and would not know how to source something equally colloquial as a children'southward culture vocal. two.103.211.132 (talk) 18:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC) [reply]

coppolawhichisatur.blogspot.com

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